3x Bestselling Author Jason Wolf Shares His Secrets

Amelia Forczak: I love your mission. Healthcare is human beings caring for human beings. You don't hear that very often

Jason Wolf: Yeah. It's, I mean, it, and it is fundamental, isn't it? I mean, it's sort of the, there is a universal truth to that, that we can't argue. And

Amelia Forczak: Mm-hmm,

Jason Wolf: We

Amelia Forczak: Mm-hmm.

Jason Wolf: In operationalizing healthcare for sure

Amelia Forczak: Yes. Healthcare is such a huge industry, and with huge industries, there's always just so many, so many challenges and that kind of thing. And so tell me a little bit about how you, how you got your passion for healthcare and how you got into it.

Jason Wolf: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, my background is a little sorted, like I guess most, Gen Xers. I started as a, you know, working and focusing on international relations and foreign service and sort of was grooming myself to do diplomacy and somehow found myself instead working on that idea of org culture in organizations, and how to use diplomatic skills and how we worked as people inside organizations, which then led me to believe that probably the place [00:02:00] that needed it most and would benefit the greatest was in healthcare.

So quick synopsis of how I found myself in healthcare really being both a practitioner and a researcher, so like a pracademic of sorts. You know, my research really led me to not only understand what drove good and positive outcomes in healthcare, but really got to the evidence of it around a strong culture, around those critical ideas that matter.

And so I found myself all of a sudden in healthcare organizations, worked inside a really large healthcare system for a number of years. And in that time discovered we had still some opportunities that weren't happening within healthcare that I felt might be useful to bring from outside of healthcare.

And so it really led to the institute and this idea of kind of this combination of diplomacy, organizational insights, and opportunity to create connection globally that really led to, led to me where I sit today.

Amelia Forczak: I love that. So now you're managing the Beryl Institute. Tell me a little bit more about that, [00:03:00] because that's how we met originally, like what? 13, 14 years ago when I was working for, yeah, for a company that was doing healthcare, and I just kept hearing great things about the Beryl Institute, and, "Oh, you gotta meet Jason.

Wait till you meet him. He's doing such great things." You guys have come so far since then.

Jason Wolf: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting because I'm president and CEO. I've been running the Beryl Institute from day one, when I left the delivery side of care. And we really were built on that aha moment I had when I was inside a health system where were not really willing to collaborate.

Like we are-- we're still competing on who could get the most people from zip code A and zip code B and zip code C. And even people within the same system, you know, were competing to be better than the other ones. And so the sharing of ideas, didn't occur. The opportunity for proven practice to be disseminated in a way that was meaningful wasn't happening, and that be, I think, happening in healthcare, right?

We're trying to make healthcare better for [00:04:00] everyone in it. And so the idea of the institute as a clearinghouse, as a collaborative space for connection, shared learning, and really then driving the best outcomes possible in healthcare is really what spurred this move for me. So creating the institute around this sense of, global community that was committed to transforming human experience was really fundamental.

And creating a space where competitors and others could sit in the same room and share ideas without fear or hesitation, and to create a sense of collaboration at a global scale that could truly drive outcomes was always sort of our driving mission. And we've really chipped away at that over the years.

It's hard to believe, like you said, it's been closing in on two decades for me now that we've been doing this work. And from an idea, and when you and I met, it was me, team of one with some great people around me and supporting me. And, Stacy Palmer, who's my COO and SVP, has been on this journey with me pretty much from the beginning.

But what we've been able [00:05:00] to create is a community now that has, you know, over 60,000, almost 70,000 people engaging in 80 countries with content accessed in 220 countries around the world. And that still of blows my mind. We're a small team, but we've built this whole idea on the power of community and that we grow through the contributions of others. It really has been a philosophy and an idea, that's helped us achieve that. And so it does feel like a long time since that little table I think I was standing at that conference way back in Orlando, I think it was.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah

Jason Wolf: Been grateful for our friendship over all these years.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. It's been amazing to see you build the business like that. I think it's such a worthy cause. Like, we all participate in healthcare, and everyone wants things to go smoother and make sure that safety is a top priority and make sure that the people taking care of them are also taken care of and like their jobs.

And so, I just, I love what you're doing. And it's been really cool to see you write three books. The, your [00:06:00] third book just came out

Jason Wolf: Yeah

Amelia Forczak: So congratulations on that

Jason Wolf: Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a, an effort of love, I think.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. So, okay, I wanna hear, I wanna hear all about the writing process and how the latest book came together, because what you did for the most recent book is something that after writing 19 books, I would never wanna go through that whole coordination process. That seems like so much work, like so like heroic efforts for you to coordinate working with that many people.

But you found, what, 40 experts, and you had them all help on writing on a topic, and then helped, edit everything so it flows. And working with that many people on a book has to be so difficult. What was it like? You, like, you love the people, they're amazing, but you're like, "Please turn in your homework," right?

Jason Wolf: Well, you know, it's a very accountable group. I was fortunate back in more of my academic life, I [00:07:00] did of edited groups and actually working with academic edit people, it's harder. Amelia: Mm-hmm

Jason Wolf: Yeah, I mean, this idea, you know, we have at the Beryl Institute a group called the Experience Leader Circle.

This is a group of chief experience officers, senior vice presidents of experience from a number of healthcare systems, some of the biggest, you know, around. And meet on a regular basis. They come together to share stories with each other. So they're an incredibly collaborative group already. And we were actually a meeting, it was March, I was checking the date, March of 2025, so just 18 months ago, right? We were sitting in a meeting at our conference at Elevate, having a conversation around how can we have an impact on the field. And I went back to the transcript as I was telling you, because I was really curious, and I said, "I'm gonna put on my graduate professor hat right now. I think there's something more than just a paper here, because what you're speaking about is more robust than that. When we think about everything we just said, I mean, I think there's a series [00:08:00] that a number of you will be leading. I think actually we have a book." And everyone looked at me like, "What?" And I said, "Yeah, let's think about this." And literally from March of 2025 through that summer, we crafted an agenda, kind of a structure with the group. And then I asked for people to volunteer for chapters. So they picked their top three, and I was able to kind of pick pairs, so it was important, that they all had a number of people in a chapter, like they weren't just a single author. So I

Amelia Forczak: Mm.

Jason Wolf: More complicated to your point, Amelia. I said, "Okay, you can't just write one by yourself. You have to write with other people."

Amelia Forczak: Well, that, that adds a little accountability, so I feel like that could be a good thing also

Jason Wolf: Yep. And so, you know, we structured this, we created assignments and timelines, and everybody went off and wrote pieces and parts, and that was literally by the end of 2025, we had all the general outline and the general components put together.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah

Jason Wolf: The [00:09:00] first part of this year putting it together.

It was amazing because I think there was a sense of pride in authorship and contributing to something bigger than themselves. So it wasn't... It was almost never about the book. But I mean, this puppy's 424 pages, right? I mean, it's a hoss. And then we really did our best, and thanks to you and the team at Pithy, we, did our best to honor everyone's individual voice. So we gave it structure, but we didn't take away voice. You can hear from these over 40 leaders around why this segment of the work that we do in improving experience is so critical. And it- it's, to me, it's not just a, a how-to book. It really is an insight into why people believe this is important and their passion and energy.

And so it was really an honor to be able to pull that together with so many incredible people.

Amelia Forczak: That's amazing. So how-- Okay, the hardest part I feel like is the, figuring out the overarching vision for the book, and it sounds like that came out of the work that you were [00:10:00] doing already. And then from there, you put together the outline, and then you engaged the people in writing. That's the correct order for going about a book, so this is obviously not your first rodeo.

Sometimes authors just start writing a book, which can feel good 'cause you're getting content on the page, and you feel like you're making progress. But it really does make more sense to figure out the big picture first and figure out what ideas you want to include, get them in the right structure, and then start doing writing in small targeted chunks.

Jason Wolf: Yeah. Well, it

Amelia Forczak: Yes.

Jason Wolf: Well, I mean, being able to pull it together with multiple voices. I think to your point, and accountability is always your biggest concern, but this group was so committed. And yeah, we had to chase down things here and there, but I think people all were aligned around a common vision of not just a book as an end product, but as an impact that they were hoping to have.

Amelia Forczak: Mm-hmm.

Jason Wolf: That's what I think is the coolest thing about this kind of [00:11:00] being the end, if you wanna call it, of our trilogy, right, of books that we've done with you all since, you know, 2004. And it also reflects, I think, how quickly we were able to get it done. I mean, it blows my mind that we had an idea in March of '25, and this went live on September 14th of 2026.

So literally in 18 months we went from concept to release.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. With having that many people involved, that is definitely, it's definitely quick. I remember when you were saying like, "Everyone's gonna turn in their writing by," what was it, like Thanksgiving. We were like, "Wow, I hope he's right." But you guys were pretty on track. People were responsive.

They did what they were supposed to do, and I think it helped having people already know each other and be in the same kind of like flowing in the same direction anyway.

Jason Wolf: Yeah

Amelia Forczak: That, that's amazing. Give me a highlight from the book, 'cause you must have learned, some interesting stories from a lot of these leaders

Jason Wolf: If I were gonna say there's a through line, [00:12:00] what I love is that people told their own stories from experience. So, I mean, I could pull out a million stories from these pages, but what would say you read in here is that there is a real practical application to improve experience, it takes committed, passionate people to ensure it happens. And that's at all levels, right? But when you read any of these chapters, you get a sense that these folks aren't just giving me words on a page. They're giving me meaning and purpose in their words. And I think that's just, to me, the most powerful thing. There are so much tangible takeaways, but you get inspired in each segment.

And you don't have to read it from A to Z. Because it is around different components of improving experience, can pick up and start on chapter nine if they want and say, "Well, what I'm really trying to deal with is leveraging consumer insights, and I wanna focus on that." So there isn't necessarily an A to Z order to it either, [00:13:00] so it's really accessible in that way, which I think

Amelia Forczak: Yeah.

Jason Wolf: Too

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. That's amazing. And just so we have the title, "Human Experience in Action: Insights and Opportunities for Transforming Healthcare."

Jason Wolf: Yes

Amelia Forczak: Listening, and you can get it on Amazon. And that's just one out of three books that Jason's done.

Tell me how this experience was different from the first two books

Jason Wolf: Well, I mean, it's interesting 'cause to your point, like the first one was really a reflection on the, a decade of writing I had done. It was me, it was a chance to kind of just lay a foundation for where we've been and where I think we can go. Which was a perfect setup in some ways to the second book, which was written in conjunction with, our senior vice president, COO Stacy Palmer, around now what's the value case in actually doing something about it, right?

So why is this an important thing? And we laid out the guiding principles there, so we got to do that in a partnership. To then the third book where I got to coordinate [00:14:00] really a group of colleagues creating something. So each one has its own flavor, yet there's such continuity, in the connection of foundations to the future, and then the principles on which to build action and then the actual actions to take. There is a sense that you can travel through these three books and really become an effective practitioner in this work too, which I think is really exciting and it's conveyed both in the words, and I mean, I will say I love working with you all because, I mean, I am, have an affinity for the way we even present these books and their art and their covers. There's a lot of symbolic meaning and some Easter eggs in there too if you ever look at the three covers together. So I do think it conveys a lot in the journey that people have to travel when they're trying to improve healthcare.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. The covers I think are great example of, having continuity through the whole, process, which is not something... I don't think we planned for that, right? Did we just pick the cover and we're like, "We love this cover. This is great." And then the next one [00:15:00] was just like a riff off of that, and it, they ended up just all going together.

Jason Wolf: Yeah, I mean, the first one was a vision of where I thought we were, like what I was hoping it would look like, thinking that was the book we were gonna have. And then as we thought about it, I was like, "Well, it would be really awesome to build off that." And then when we got to the third one, like we really do need to build off it, and the three of them together is almost like a piece of art. I've been honestly not joking thinking about putting them in like a frame and having them there, just the covers, 'cause I like looking at them.

Amelia Forczak: The covers are beautiful. Tell me about how having the books helped you with, marketing The Beryl Institute or just sort of building your personal brand and platform ?

Jason Wolf: Yeah, I mean, I think that writing is always important. I'm an, as I said, a-self, identified academic as well. And so I do think it's important to share your words in a structure that's meaningful. And I do think people, see books as kind of a sign of expertise and thought leadership.

I mean, we at the institute, you know, we've got four strategic focuses. One is around how we bring and grow our [00:16:00] global community so that people can contribute to the conversation, how we continue to advocate to executives so they think this is of value and ensure they do things about it, how we connect the world in conversation, and then how we stand as a source of truth. To me, when we put books out there, it creates your positioning as a source of truth, right? And it's not just 'cause there's a book, but it's because hopefully they're thoughtful, they bring value and a message that's meaningful, and they're things literally, like we talked about, people can pick up and put into action.

And so to me, the most fulfilling moment isn't, like, how many books purchase. I don't think it's about that ever. Though it's nice, right? It's not that game. It's really around when you see someone post, "I got this, and this is what I was able to do as a result." And I think that then really does, back to your point, help close the loop.

People say, "Okay, the Beryl Institute or Jason or Stacy or one of these 42 incredible authors helped us do something as a result, and so we're grateful, and, we [00:17:00] see their role as a thought leader." And so I think it does... It's a self-reinforcing process. And the way we operate and the way you heard me share our values before, my hope is it also inspires others that their words matter, right?

So these come with a purpose, that it's not simply we wrote a book and we're authors, but we told stories that you can also tell. And that to me is the most important thing we can inspire in our community, is that sense of con-contributing to something bigger. Because, you know, back to the core value I said started this, when we can get people in a space, not only just a room, but in space, co-creating, sharing, and trying to elevate a conversation, I believe we have the greatest chance to transform healthcare by doing that.

So where I-- That's how I see the value, if that makes any sense.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah, that makes total sense. Most of the authors or aspiring authors that I talk with want to help people. That's sort of their North Star with thinking about having a book. But sometimes I think people can kind of get in their [00:18:00] heads where it seems like they're like, "Oh, well, does anyone care about what I have to say?

Is this gonna look like I'm just trying to have a book to have it?" I think coming back to a point of contribution where you're realizing that you are an expert, you have a lot of information that would help people, let's get it out there, not have imposter syndrome, and then once you get that feedback from people, you see that it's working, and that's amazing.

When I talk to authors we've published, it's not like fan mail, but they'll get emails from people saying how the book changed their lives, and that's gotta feel amazing, right?

Jason Wolf: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the point, right? You do it, I think writing any book for anyone that's considering it is both a personal exercise a sense of something you wanna contribute regardless of what happens, and then the impact you hope it has for others, right? So it's, it's always a balancing act.

And I think to your point, there's a sense of humility to it. I think I remember a conversation we had where I'm like, "Oh, it was great." And you're like, "You really need to be telling people these are bestseller books," right? And I don't-- you don't think about that. I'm like, "Yeah." So actually [00:19:00] now in the end of my keynotes, there's a slide with all three books that they're all number one bestsellers in healthcare administration and nursing administration. And, you know, it's not be like, "Yeah, Jason's great," but I mean, there's something meaningful there, right? And that's, I think, important. It reaffirms that the effort that anybody that puts one of these things together, that there's meaning in it, for someone else. And that means a lot when you think you can give that gift to the world, right?

That's a pretty cool

Amelia Forczak: Mm-hmm.

Jason Wolf: So,

Amelia Forczak: Yeah

Jason Wolf: We shouldn't take that for granted.

Amelia Forczak: It's actually making me think, so when you get feedback like this, and I should be asking our authors to do this. When you get feedback from readers, send it to us because we wanna see that our work is impacting people, and it's just like this whole flow, right? And I think that's also what you guys are talking about for healthcare, because everyone who has any kind of impact on the patient experience, they wanna be connected with the outcomes for the patient.

How did that make their day? And anybody who contributed, [00:20:00] whether it's like someone cleaning their room or someone who greeted their family at the door, like just making sure everybody knows that they mattered and how they helped.

Jason Wolf: Yeah. And these are team efforts, right? I mean, you know, I mean, I think that's the thing that I hope most authors remember, right? I mean, this book specifically says edited by, right? I didn't write the whole thing. I wrote a lot of it and edited all of it, but I mean, this is 40-plus voices of people. But it wasn't just all of us. I mean, I think your team was a critical piece and has been in all three of our books on that, and I think the acknowledgement that these things come about not in just because, like you said, someone sat down with a typewriter and ran something and printed it out and stuck it somewhere.

I mean, they're efforts, and they're, I think, incredible team efforts of contribution. So I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge that having the right partner and doing some-something like this enables it to happen in ways that's meaningful, right? We don't get from a crazy idea on March 31st, 2025, to a published book on September 15th without [00:21:00] good partners, and I think that's something that you have always been able to bring to me, so I'm grateful for that.

Amelia Forczak: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, we wanna make the process less scary for people because it is a lot of work if you think, especially if you're self-publishing, all the little things that need to be done, whether it's the big picture strategy or developmental editing, so making sure the content's in the right place.

Are we talking about the right things? Then the sentence level edits, proofreading, the layout, the cover design. There's so many things, right? And so, if authors are intimidated by that process, it's good to know that you actually don't need to do all those things yourself. You don't need to know how to do them

Jason Wolf: Agreed 100%. In fact, you shouldn't try.

Amelia Forczak: Yeah.

Jason Wolf: You can, but There's certain things you should know you have limitations and find the experts to help you get it done, so

Amelia Forczak: Yeah. So now that you've written three books, you've published three books, you're a major expert in the whole realm of authorship. Tell me, do you have [00:22:00] advice for someone who wants to write a book and they aren't sure how to get started, or they don't know what that looks like? What would you tell them?

Jason Wolf: Yeah, I mean, I love that question because, you know, I've asked myself that a lot for a long time, and we had those conversations a long time ago. I mean, I think part of it is, part of it is, being with yourself what you wanna say, just knowing that you have something to say, first of all. I think you have to believe that, back to your point, right? Before you even worry about the process. And if you have an idea or concept or something you have to say, capturing that in some way in paper form, structure, picture, whatever it is for you, is really important. When you have that, chances are if it feels like that to you've already shared it with other people and you know it's important to somebody else.

And the m- minute it happens, as I would always say, if one other person in the world that like, "That's really interesting," that's enough of an audience, right? And I think sometimes we're like, "Well, there's not gonna be this many people that ever wanna know about that." I think so the what people will think is, is the wrong...

I hate to [00:23:00] say wrong, but I wouldn't suggest that be the place you start. I would start with, "I have an idea that I think I believe in." And I think it really is from that belief that then you can begin to frame. I think people try to imagine what the book will like at the end. Like, here's the structure and the chapters, and sometimes then you get overwhelmed by the process.

I, you know, I in just getting started. I have a concept. This is an idea. Make a declaration that something's gonna come, and it will, and it might take people a year and a half like it did on one. It could take people five years because that's what they need, and I don't think there's a right or wrong. But I do think, you know, capturing the idea, understanding that it's gonna be of interest to someone. You used the term imposter syndrome, right? I think everybody that writes a book, even probably Malcolm Gladwell, you know, he, probably has that too. You know, he likes to do it, but I'm sure when you hear him do interviews, he's like, "I don't...

I just kinda... You know, I don't know." And, you just never know what's gonna happen and whose lives you're gonna touch. And what the gift of doing this is that I think people often overlook [00:24:00] is the people you will never know that you impact, right? You're never gonna know who buys this or gets it from a friend or picks it up or sees a snippet online. But if there's one little nugget that kinda gets planted in places you never thought that can change someone's life or attitude or practice, then that's all we can hope for. And so I would try to frame your adventure as an author that way versus get lost in the process itself.

Amelia Forczak: I think that's such good advice. It's, it's funny, it's kind of the starting point when I'm working with, a new client is to ask them, even I think even on the sales call, I ask them, "What does success look like for this project? What are you hoping to do? Who are we talking to? How would it impact, your career trajectory?

Are you talking about things you're passionate about ? Where does that go?" And so it's like that big picture vision is the thing to spend time on.

Jason Wolf: Yeah

Amelia Forczak: Everything else down the road, We can put the table of contents together. You can work with an editor for that kind of thing.

If you [00:25:00] have the big picture vision on how it will make an impact in your, in your industry or in your, you know, little niche, that's really all you need to get going.

Jason Wolf: Yep. Agreed

Amelia Forczak: Very cool. If you could go back just thinking about like working on your past books, if you could go back and do anything differently, is there anything that you would change?

Jason Wolf: I don't think I would. I mean, I, you know, I maybe 'cause it's just I've, I did them older and they're more as a passion project, right? I mean, I would affirm something that I tried to remind myself of along the way that I would suggest maybe I would've changed, but I think you have to enjoy the ride 'cause it's a pain in the butt. Let's be honest, right? I mean, this is not, like, your job necessarily, right? If someone's writing a book for the first time, it's not 'cause you're a paid author. You don't know where it's gonna lead. Three, you got probably something else you have to do, like your job or take care of your kids or whatever you might be needing to do. So it is like that thing over here [00:26:00] often. There are probably times where I forgot that, so I mean, that's where I would. But if you can enjoy the ride because it is a, is a personal journey. Even when you're guiding 40-something people like I did here, right?

I mean, and to see even the pride of all of those authors for the one chapter they contributed to this, you know, 20-plus chapter book, have pride. Like, "I'm a published author." There's pictures on LinkedIn right now of some of my authors with their kids having book signings on their kitchen table, right? That's meaningful. And if you don't enjoy the ride, that stuff doesn't ever, you know, get realized in some significant way, so.

Amelia Forczak: I think that's such great life advice for anything you're doing, whether it's

Jason Wolf: And Amelia. I get

Amelia Forczak: Whether it's something you wanna do or something you have to do, the best thing you can do is try to enjoy it, right? And so, what are some ways you can do that? Just like not stressing out about it, number one. I think not being a perfectionist is another big thing.[00:27:00]

We always talk to authors about that, where just get it to 70%. See if you can get it to 75%, turn it in, and then your editor can take it from there. The whole done is better than perfect mentality, I think helps people move through content quicker.

Jason Wolf: Yes. Yes. I would offer one more. Trust yourself. And I would say don't be afraid to get the help you need. Because, you need both of those things to probably be successful, unless you are brilliant and can figure all the things and have all the extra time in the world to do it, right? I mean, you can definitively own trusting yourself.

That's a simple choice. It's not always easy, right? But you gotta do that. And then finding the support you need, I think is the right path forward on these journeys, so it's a critical choice for people, I think

Amelia Forczak: Amazing advice. Jason, thank you so much for joining us today

Jason Wolf: Oh, Amelia, I'm just honored. Thank you for your partnership and support on this journey. You know, people ask me, "Are you done now with three?" I said, "You know, I thought so, but I don't [00:28:00] know." So we'll leave that as a dot, dot, dot to be continued. How does that

Amelia Forczak: I love that. Where can people go to learn more about you and stay connected?

Jason Wolf: The best place is at the Beryl Institute, so it's just the berylinstitute.org. We have all of our information about how we as a community come together, how to contact me, and, and how to access these books and other information that can help people on their experience journey. You know, it's just a great practical resource and more so a community to connect to of other people that are really trying to make a difference in the world in general. And so I'd encourage everyone to check it out and hopefully participate in all the things we're trying to do. Got a crazy dream that we're gonna ensure in the next decade that healthcare is the leading experience industry in the world, that we can teach everybody else what it means to actually be, as you started off with, human beings caring for human beings, so

Amelia Forczak: What an amazing vision. I can't wait for that to come true. We will put all the links for all the stuff in the show notes so people can access it. Thanks everyone who's listening. Again, I'm [00:29:00] Amelia Forczak. I'm the founder of Pithy Wordsmithery, and to quote Toni Morrison, "If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it."